Before I begin, I’d like to address that this information is not meant to be an “attack” towards any member(s) of the Maplemation Forum in any way, shape or form, Its purpose is to detect and analyze valid reasons as to why new members seem to become inactive and why the forum is not as lively as it used to be; It’s meant to be a contribution for the benefit of our community. Introduction ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ In my first thread I will admit that the research was flawed, lacking and set unrealistic goals because we are no longer in “the golden era”, I did not consider that MapleStory animations lost relevance along with the self-destructive behavior of some members within the community, those were the things I could have never considered at first. On the other hand, the quality in the content has seen an enormous increase, It has given many people the chance to profit off their hobby, let us meet people from all around the world and, in general, has opened many doors in people's lives, myself included. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ With this said, I invite you to read our survey report (Click) made by @StayFrosty Spoiler: Graph Comparison Active New Members: People with less than 100 posts, presumed "active" until June 16th. Active Members: People with more than 100 posts, presumed "active" until June 27th. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ In short... ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Based on the data, new members affirm that the community is welcoming and helpful towards them, They also consider the forum's content to be entertaining, just as regular members do. However, regular members have disagreed and stated that the community is not what it appears to be, holding opposing views towards the content's originality, Yet both sides agree that the forum does not offer enough resources to new members. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ More Data ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ In the last question, we asked them directly why they think new members become inactive; I made my own analysis between the results, going from the most popular to least popular answer, my reasoning is based on the information we gathered. Feel free to share your own thoughts and conclusions. Spoiler: 7 Reasons why new members become inactive (July 2016) PA: People Answered 1. Loss of interest (31 PA – 80%) Now this is evidence is contradictory on the new members’ side, if the content is entertaining and original, how is it not interesting? In my opinion the loss of interest, at least on the animation side is because of the "make a fight/smash animation" meta is growing stale and repetitive, What's the cause? I think there are not enough creative characters; think of the maple animators you admire, they have some sort of unique style and character design right? As animators, we should make content that differentiates us one from another. We should also be open minded and look for other things to animate that might also be fun. 2. Real life priorities (20 PA– 50%) This shouldn’t be a surprise, most of us will go through this at some point or have already been through it and It’s always going to be there; strangely enough it’s only the second cause of why people think new members become inactive. 3. They feel intimidated by big animators (18 PA – 45%) I'm gonna speak from a personal standpoint. There's nothing to be afraid of, we all have our own insecurities but really, what's the worst that could happen? Why would you feel intimidated? The way you accept CNC depends of what kind of person you are. How i see it is that you are going to find people who are better than you, through their comments and critics these people are actually helping you become good as they are, and it will depend on the way you choose to see it. Every animator you've felt intimidated by has gone through that "phase", nowadays you have many tutorials that will let you learn everything you need faster than they did so don’t be discouraged if your animations don't look like you wanted them to; remember that it's still goingt to take a lot of time, effort, resources and knowledge about the programs. 4. Other (12 PA – 30%) According to some members, these are other reasons of why they think new members become inactive: - CNC that discourages them, lack of activity in the forum, drama and lack of originality in animations. Some other members emphasized on the following: - Not enough resources for new animators, lack of originality in animations, number of required posts to access resources, hostility towards some new members, lack of guidance, negative rumors about the forum and an increase of pessimism during the last couple years that resulted in unfavorable behaviors. 5. They don’t receive enough resources (11 PA – 28%) Resources, resources, resources... While other communities share their resources without the need of even registering, in Maplemation they are used as an incentive to create an active community and to prevent certain members from "leeching" and does this still work? Personally, I don't think so, I will talk about this point again in the next section. The team and I spoke about this and we reached some conclusions and made our suggestions: Can we offer limited resources? Yes, in fact I did this, and I noticed some of the new members I gave the resources to did in fact, make new animations. Can we change the comment/like system to acess resources? Us as a team, no, but what if instead of "working" your way up to 100 post through spam, why don't we reward content creation? This system would focus on the likes the member has recieved, we agreed 20 likes and being in the forum for one month is enough to let them access the complete resources, if not, a "tier" system should suffice, say you get x amount of resources for reaching 10 posts, 20 likes, 25 posts, 50 likes and so on... Personally I've seen some new members get over 20 likes within two to three animation/sprites, it would only make it better for them if they had more resources. Can we do something about the "leaked" version that's on YouTube? Would you download something claiming to have maplemation resources from a video with 22 dislikes, in a single link, by FkYu Trow? If I was new I sure wouldn't. What does this say about the forum? At this point we think resources should be public, nothing guarantees that they will stay after having these outdated resources or by that matter, that some of the links of the actual thread still work; from my perspective, I could only see myself using only like 5 threads from the resource section; we can only think positively and that if we give them good resources they MIGHT stay for longer. 6. There’s no middle ground between being a “newbie” and a “pro animator” (9 PA – 23%) In my opinion, this is a consequence of a mix of the problems listed above; there’s no middle ground because new animators lack proper guidance (I personally don’t think that: “yeah, go listen to Derek ramble for three hours is proper guidance”), they don’t have good resources, they feel intimidated by the big animators and most can’t compare themselves with other members because there’s little activity in the forum, unless they bring a friend or join a group and thus, they leave. All things aside, this is almost the last answer, I think we should focus on the first couple of reasons. 7. The community is focused on “MapleStory” animations (2 PA – 5%) I’m the guy who thought we needed to see variety regarding sprites, but now I see that this is the least concern regarding the matter, I admit I was wrong by trying to change MapleMation to something it isn’t and for that, I apologize. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Conclusion and Suggestions ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ The problem is clear, new members have a positive point of view towards MapleMation while a considerable amount of its own regular members think differently. Although I whole heartedly agree with Frosty of why we ought to be and think in a more positive manner, I do think there’s something each one of us can do to enjoy our stay even more, however, It’s completely up to us and what we want to do: Spoiler: To the Forum To the Forum ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ I don't think I'm asking for an arm and a leg this time, or making anyone's life harder... We always speak of this “Golden era of Animations” that is never coming back, that sprite animation is on its downfall and that there’s no middle ground between being a completely inexperienced animator to being able to profit from it. While these are valid arguments in their own right; my question is why do we keep using the same rules from almost five years in the past? Are we on that same situation? Are we stuck on the "This is how we do it" kind of mentality? I'm specifically talking about the 100 post restriction to access resources, acknowledge the one video that keeps showing up when you search for “Maplemation” in Google, there's nothing we can do about this outdated leak; Why don't we just embrace it, numbers don't lie; please consider that it's not just me, there are about twenty five others who think the same way, most coming from the regular members (thirteen without me). If you're a new member reading this, here: [CS6] Elemental Skills V2 COMPLETE [FL8] Fire Sprites [Sprites] Marvel Vs Capcom VFX [Sprites] Elemental Skills (PNG) [SoundKit] Juan's Sound Kit [SoundKit] Marvel Vs Capcom Character Voices [SoundKit] Street Fighter SFX These resources will help you a lot during your time here; sorry if I didn't send the first one to you privately but, it was something I was doing by myself for two months and a half (It's a CS6 file which I wasn't able to convert to the older versions so please download the .zip in mediafire to get the pngs). Even with the evidence, I can’t ask of you to remove said restriction, I don’t feel at ease asking for half, so I consider a reduction to 60 posts to be a good number for now, what are we really hiding anyways? ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Spoiler: To the Animators To the Animators ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ I also agree that the content regarding animations is sometimes entertaining, but not very original; personally, I'm sick of making fight animations. I'd suggest you to try new styles, sprites or programs. Some of you may know that I did a six-month animation course; our final project was to make two animated infographics about the architecture and culture of the city; that was my introduction to after effects (3D too) and adobe illustrator. So, lately I've been very interested in learning more about motion graphics and digital art. I could show you the infographics, but they're on Spanish. I'll make subtitles and post them eventually; for now here's a WIP of Animated – Vector All Might, although it's nothing I'd be proud of yet. Another thing I'd like to say is that there's a secret collab going on right now which is far from the smash/fight meta, and we already have four minutes; more information coming soon, maybe. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Spoiler: To the Community To the Community ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ As a member of this community, I can only share the resources and knowledge I have as a five-year experienced maple-animator… Remember the 3rd reason of why we think new members become inactive? How can we make new members overcome their “fear”? Now I don't consider myself to be on a top tier god level, but I do know some tricks that I take for granted given the time I've been making animations so if you are a new animator, or you're just interested on how I make stuff, keep an eye on the tutorial section, I promise I will make three tutorials about the things that haven't been explained well enough. In fact, here's the first one: http://maplemation.com/threads/flash-intermediate-visual-effects.33309/#post-326657 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Spoiler: The Golden Era The Golden Era VS New Era ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ I read this recently: as human beings, memories are greatly affected by our own perception, this means what happened in the past or how we remember it could be wrong. One of my colleagues suggested a comparison between the golden era and the new era, as the differences may contribute to identify more reasons of why new members tend to leave the forum in less than a month. For we selected topics related to creativity, productive activities and idol figures which i personally rated from one to five. I reiterate that my opinions are not facts. Feel free to make your own comparison. Creativity Generally speaking, the forum is definitely doing more creative projects, at this point we've seen a couple of sprite collabs and even art collabs which i consider to be of high quality and very creative. In my opinion, animation collabs are the main force that bring new members into the forum, sadly, the concepts are unoriginal and repetitive, how many smash collabs do we have? Which is why i repeat: Animators/Collab Hosts, we ought to make creative projects if we want to bring new members into the forum, make the ideas accesible for every member and offer better resources to motivate the participants. Productive Activities This is related to the activity in the forum regarding animation, sprites and art. I remember back in 2012 coming home from work and seeing at least three new animations every day and thinking to myself "Hell yeah, I'm gonna do this too" and we were very engaged in MBRs; today it seems this passion has disappeared due to various reasons, in my opinion some of them were already listed within this thread. But... as animators, How can we make good content faster that would also motivate other members? Short Action-Packed Collabs - Idea Suggested by @StayFrosty These short collabs will be from one to two minutes long and will only require a couple of seconds from its participants, allowing more room for new collaborators and less chances for withdrawal. We've seen this strategy be successful countless times, wheter if it's back to the BannedStory Collab 1 or to The Giant Foot Collab 2. The forum sees more activity during the months of january, february, june, july, november and december. Idol Figures From my point of view, in the past we had many people to look up to, starting from Dray to Derek; nowadays the animators I admire have had an amazing opportunity to profit off their hobbies, Sadly, MapleStory animations; which i can easily relate to; have decreased. It could be the lack of Maple animation idols that also affected the productive activies. Based on my experience, if you are truly passionate about animations you would try different styles and programs to mimic what your favorite animators are doing. As consequence: you will broaden your horizons, start making more and better content, that way you can motivate others to do the same. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Have a nice day! What are your thoughts or suggestions about the matter? new members, be sure to check "to the forum" for surprises wink wink nudge nudge ;)
This is a very well-conducted and an insightful research topic that you two have chosen to look at. I may not have been part of this survey, but I hope that I don't sound pretentious as I try to give my own input from my time as a newcomer as well as comments about the current state of affairs in the forum. Spoiler: Aranimation the Newbie Disclaimer: This was before a MapleMation discord group was established and people were still using Skype. For me, I have always been a fan of the ever-so popular MMORPG, MapleStory since I started back in 2008. Playing the game itself was a great experience as it was what everyone in my school played back in the days, but my interest was further piqued when I chanced upon a MapleStory animator by the name of Kabalito Amaya (aka Jester). In awe of what he was capable of doing with MapleStory sprites, I continued to look for more videos like his on Youtube; and that's when I found people like MapleMissile, GreenCream, and so many others doing the same thing. Unfortunately, I had always been whimsical about whether I could pick up a skill such as sprite animation during my primary school education under the strict watch of my family. Then, during the spring of my senior year in high school, I decided to find myself a Flash Program and try it out for the first time. Using spritefan2's tutorials, I played around with the program and began to understand a bit of what the program had to offer and that's when, in February 2014, I finally signed up to MapleMation, a forum that specialized in MapleStory sprite animations. Unfortunately, after giving my introduction, I felt lost as I didn't really know how to interact with the people in this forum; like reason #3, I felt intimidated by the presence of people who were "professionals" and how most of the ongoing collaboration events at the time were for higher-leveled animators. From there, I was alone and became lost about what to do. The amount of time I spent for animating gradually became less and less and that's when I stepped out of the forums for an entire year. March 2015, I come back and post my first completed animation and the comments I received on it made me feel stellar. I took everything the members of the forum gave me and focused on what I could do to fix my flaws. But after that brief moment of joy, I quickly became timid once more. Even though I knew there was a community here that was able to look at my amateur work and give honest/detailed feedback, I still somewhat felt lonely...just not to the extent I did last time. So I continued to animate all alone, but with a neatly planned schedule so that I could experiment more and more with Flash. Then came my saving grace, a sub-community called a faction that was not looking for seasoned animators, but new and inexperienced members with the intent of helping them improve. And thanks to @StayFrosty as well as the members of my faction, Horizon, I am where I am today; not a super-decorated, master animator, but still a better animator than what I would have been if I didn't join the group. TL;DR: When I joined in 2014, I had exhibited the first four "signs" that Juan listed: Loss of Interest | Real Life Priorities | Intimidation | Other (Lack of Communication) Spoiler: Discord and its Effects on Forum Activity Don't mean to offend anyone in this commentary. Now, in 2016, instead of speaking through forum posts or requesting Skype contact details, the creation of a MapleMation Discord group seems to have made a seemingly good impression for many newcomers. The establishment of a messaging server that allowed for new members to talk with already existing members - without the need of a requirement except for being a member of the forum - has brought together the community. But while the Discord group provides a sense of activeness, it is actually taking away forum activity. Except for a few individuals, The Dumpster Thread and The Sprite Sub-forum has been replaced by #critique. Most of the chillzone and database sub-forums have remained quiet as many of these discussions can occur on the Discord as well. Moreover, because of the nature of having a public messaging server, there can be times when it is overall more distracting than it is helpful for newcomers to partake in it. Frankly, the people I see in the server are never seen anywhere but there and not all of the time are they actually working towards contributing to the purpose of the forums. Spoiler: In Regards to Resources Besides the need for an animating program to use and possibly a few coding scripts for animation, I never felt an absolute need for them. It's been two years and until recently, I still haven't reached the required 100 posts to gain access to the "hidden treasures" of the forum, and I still don't feel like I need them. Perhaps it's due to my lack of knowledge as to what is actually in the resources section, but there are plenty of other databases to search for spritesheets, general effects, sound effects, and so many more. Up to this point, all my resources have come from: Sprites: The Spriters Resource | BannedStory | MapleStory Extractions | DFO Extractions Sounds: The Sounds Resource | DFO Extractions General Effects: BannedStory | DFO Extractions And there are also public databases posted by members of the forum. (Juan's Resources as listed above) Ainn's Resources Maplemation AS2 & AS3 VCam CCShinobi's Mini Sound-Pack Holiday Giveaway 2015 As well as the guides presented in the tutorials sub-forum! I don't know what's in the Resource section, but I believe that having an over-abundance of resources can sometimes deter one from actually using them. Thus, I voted "no". Spoiler: Look at Me As it seems, the number one issue for people (both new and old) is coming up with ideas to animate with. Check out THIS THREAD. Maybe you might find something you like or even contribute something yourself!
This is great, thank you! I wish I could have partaken in the survey :c If you'd like any input from me, feel free to contact me privately c: I'd be happy to share my feedback with you.
The forum activity goes down because most of the animators just left MM and make anims for Youtube and lulz. I want a medal as the person who cnc'ed th emost over the month or evne more
I doubt it, as real life becomes a higher priority and YouTube doesn't seem that high of a profit for animators anyway. If you're referring to OMM or Screwattack, that's another story Btw that last comment sounded arrogant AF no offense. :^) http://maplemation.com/threads/cnc-critique-and-you-on-maplemation.26252/ I guess if you wanna make sure you aren't critiquing the way that sounds cold af. OT: Stated my piece on Skype few days ago, but ya I agree with the solutions, and resources idea. maybe drop the post limit for the sake of some people's sanity of posts. Yeah resouces are all over the internet already, so might as well share our part too. Just need to make sure the poster doesn't spam overly meaningless unrelated posts.
If he gets a medal, I want 3 for my work from 2013 - 2015 lol Thank you for doing this Juan - your contributions and dedication to the community is always massively appreciated. I agree with a whole lot of this, especially with the conclusion that there seems to be a substantial number of optimistic new members this year versus some older individuals who decided to grow a little cynical and pessimistic. The last thing we need is slightly older kids telling new kids about "backstage drama" and the better "golden days of MM" - things that don't really help with motivation at all. Regarding this "Golden Era" and creativity - I completely agree there needs to be more creativity. I was not here on MM during that period, but on YouTube inspired by animators who knew how to tell stories and create motion in unique ways rarely done before - something very different from the amount of generic, DBZ-style bashes I've seen here. Those are still cool when done really well, but now I starting to yawn everytime I watch another mediocre bash with the same exact style and setting. Some peeps especially need to stop abusing that same punch and swish sound effect from Zack's sound kit lmao Additionally, I noticed more people seem to be afraid of posting or CnCing because of the new staff and how we appear to be "more strict", despite not changing anything about the forum rules and only lashing at truly explicitly rude/inappropriate content. I used to CnC A LOT when I had more time, in order to demonstrate that it is indeed possible to give fair, constructive feedback without "flaming" or "sugar-coating". If we can get more of our regular (secretly active) members to post a little more often, I think that would also really help encourage the new gen and general productivity. Fortunately, things have been getting better with new MBRQs and other diverse content from returners and newbies alike, despite school and everyone being wrapped in real life priorities. And we still have a few big collab projects coming, despite rumors. I apologize for not being as active and supportive as I used to be - life has been really different since I transferred and started living more on campus in LA. I will try to talk with the other staff members sometime about some of these suggestions. Thank you again for the contributions everyone, and if anyone else has a constructive opinion on this matter, please use your voice! Let's keep pushing to make this new era the best it can be.
" As of today, sharing resources will make the community grow. " I'd say "yes" Apparently, most of the resources are old and met some of the animators which came in took the resources and became inactive in the forum. Trying out new styles, different sprite, drawn animation is not a bad thing either but I kinda see the problem that most of them felt demotivated and stopped animating + start being inactive. Also, I can't figure out how to encourage the newbies to stay since majority of them came in and shared their production and left due to "harsh" cnc. (which is not really harsh) Most CnCs are proper while some are "harsh". Basically giving out unnecessary comments such as " ew why did you blah blah.." . I understand that this is a community. we learn together and all. But, I just can't figure out how. BUT HEY! An old collab ; [Beginner's Collab] The Ball Collab , it's a great idea and good opportunity for all newbies to participate this kind of collab ! Yet, I have no idea what happened to all these dead collabs!
"As of today, sharing resources will make the community grow." No. It won't make the community grow. But you're right, Juan, that the post count and time restrictions (assuming the "You must be a member for at least a month" rule still exists) to access the resource section is a thing of the past. The forum doesn't see nearly enough activity for 100 posts to be a reasonable request anymore. I say it should be dropped. This is just conjecture, but we probably would see some kind of rise in animation activity (not necessarily a growth in popularity/population) from the newcomers if the resource section became automatically available. Right now it's just discouraging them that they have to reach such an unreasonable post count for such a trivial reward.
If this is the #1 reason people are leaving, giving them resources isn't addressing the problem. I think us creating inspiring animations is what feeds interest primarily. Think about it, there was probably at least 1 person that inspired you to join Maplemation-- be it a collab host, solo animator or an MBR battle. That animation interested you, did it not? That's how it usually is, and you are all still here today (even if you're not animating actively at this point in time). Coming from Robin Hood, maybe giving a sample of resources could be a nice forum experiment towards new members. A smaller (reduced and watered-down) "New Member Templates" thread intended for new members could be a good way to see if resources have anything to do with content creation / forum activity. That way we don't eliminate the 100 post count requirement for the main thread. The new members thread should have a 1 post requirement. Obviously, that first post will be made in the Introductions section. (It's also worth asking the template spriters what templates they'd like to be featured in the smaller mini templates thread, that way people are at least aware of their templates becoming more exposed to the public.) I think there's something to this that's plausible. When Blez hosted that collab, we saw an increase of activity and some of the members stayed for a while. Not to mention. I'd say this is definitely legitimate. Maybe we can address this by encouraging new members to reach out to the big animators via some beginner collabs.
There are a couple of things that have been mentioned that I couldn't directly adress in the first post: Definitely, I also noticed things have been getting better since the last couple of months after the MBRQ update and removing the chatbox, so the new members can go to discord is another great way to involve them in the community; as Aranimation says; I've been told many of them like to hang around the server, we must now find more ways to bring them to the forum. As an animator, I will also agree that having too many resources is not that good, because you'd be lost and it would be really hard to find something good. However, having few resources is like setting a limit for how much you can do before your animations look stale, sounds and feels repetitive. WE should look for a balance between trying out new things and using what we already have; in my opinion; this can be achieved through sharing well organised, high quality resources. It's the reason I voted yes, it will make the community grow in a sense of content creation. To be sure, the ideas I mostly believe in to tackle the loss of interest are: • Incentivizing our own creativity; trying out a different animating style, a different software, a different genre. • Sharing a resource kit for new members. • Making animation collaborations with simple and creative ideas, that anyone can join. Edit: I'd also like to say that Frosty and I are not responsible for the entirety of this thread, behind it, we're a group of about ten people and every single one of us contributed to make it.
I still strongly believe that the post count required for resources access should be reduced. I agree with your suggestion of 60, or I was thinking 50 posts required to access resources. A resource kit for new members! I'd strongly advocate that it include a good amount of templates! At least one running template, maybe some facial expressions, maybe one or two of a few different kinds of weapons (one scythe, two short swords, etc.), and more. And maybe a pack of a few sound effects. But I'd mostly urge the inclusion of templates. Those are useful to a wider audience than just weapons/sound effects/maps.
Now that you list it out like this, it seems like a grave situation huh? I'm not really sure what to say on the matter, being new and all. I will stay here, but school is packing a punch in animating time.
Being a new member, it would be great to know your thoughts about it. This situation was one of the things one of my colleagues said that could happen: if the new members have a good impression of the forum, for some of them, it wouldn't be positive to see this thread right away, as this is one of the reasons we decided to release it right now where many people like you will be busy with their personal lives, unlike during the months of december and january. As I mentioned before, I actually think the forum is doing better since the latest updates, and I'm sure it will only get better, at least for some time.
I think it's worth noting that a friend of mine lost all interest in the forums after I told her about the 100 post rule.
The 100 post rule is fine for me, it proves that the user has the potential trust in staying within the forums. I don't know how to handle the inactive situation, but us newer membahs need to be more committed to this. Like creating holiday animation/art that shows they're here to stay and learn.
That's pretty much the thing that has bugged me about this whole deal. It would be nicer of we had members that proved they would stay instead of flooded accounts that are only ever made for leeching off the site resources. And you know that if word spread that MM resources were not 100 post required then a lot of random accounts would spawn. Some might make an intro but I'm pretty sure Some wouldn't even bother.
Yeah, I'm definitely not suggesting to remove the post requirement. But I think it should be lowered significantly, like to fifty or sixty. Also, it would be awesome if donations were opened up again as an alternative to the post requirement.
As someone who has been animating with Maple Story sprites since 2007, there is no doubt that the MapleStory community in general is not the same as it was a few years ago. Not only has the game MapleStory become less popular among the MMORPG or even online gaming as a whole, the recent social media (and what people call "news") and business market have become more prominent in the internet. The past 1-2 years - heck, even the last 2 to 6 months - we teenagers/young adults are being more and more bombarded with 'click bait' and distractions in addition to everyone (especially big corps) trying to monetize and expand their businesses. Competition and pressure is rising, and everyone is simultaneously getting distracted by social media. The biggest example of this is YouTube, where I'm sure most of us came from when/before joining MapleMation. Not only is YouTube shoving click bait and "TV shows" in our faces, but it's making harder for creators like us to navigate and discover in general. I'd like to point out that what I said above is not the reason for the issues Juan stated in his first post, but I think it's important to note that the creator/artist/etc community drastically changed the past few years/months due to the internet's role(s) changing in that time as well. I completely agree that popular Maple animators quitting, MapleStory getting less popular, our community being less active are all true reasons. There is no clear cut solution that can be done overnight or even over a month. Each animator/spriter/artist/etc is different -- different goals, different styles, different motivation sources, different time schedules, different IRL matters to attend to, etc. So it's hard to determine what exactly will bring more activity to the community or just MM. I agree that events and collabs are great ideas to get some juices flowing, which needs to be done strategically. That being said, I feel like there needs to be a change in atmosphere/attitude. I originally began MapleStory animating with MMVs and cliche Maple series using Sony Vegas, which is different how MM originally was. From my perspective (and I'm sure the perspectives of those who were also part of MMV and series using Sony Vegas), MapleMation is a forum that was dedicated to fight animations, wide variety of original content, Flash/Fireworks, and other forms of animation/art (Photoshop, anime style, AE, stop motion, etc), formed by a close community that was very critical (both in a good way and sometimes in a harsh way) and often looked down on those who animated with SV. Which made sense, I've noticed how few in MM don't consider using Maple sprites with SV 'animating' (maybe because SV is a video editing software, not animation software) and majority of the SV users were young and new with cliche/dramatic/grossly-romantic stories to share. I'm probably generalizing too much, but there was a clear difference in community and audience between those who were eminent in MM vs those in Mapleology/New Gen Anime/YouTube in general. I was, and still sort of am, one of those newbies who uses SV that came into MM who also felt intimidated not only because of the 'big, pro figures,' but simply because I was afraid of not fitting in. If we are wanting to increase more activity within the forums, not only do we need more people who take initiative, but also more a positive/encouraging atmosphere with an open mind. I'm not saying that every animation/artwork posted should receive a thumbs up or "AMAZING JOB WOW". When it gets down to it, MM is a forum where you can showcase your work and get helpful CnC and/or praise as well as be a part of the community. We should just be more open minded to those who come to MM as well as be willing to help others -- not necessarily hold their hands, but even answer the obvious answers, for example, because that could make a big difference to learning animators/creators/artists/etc. I recently joined this MMV collab and in our Skype group chat, so 20+ people are actively talking to each other and these are active and talented MMV-ers who would be interested in other forms/methods of animation, I'm sure. Watching my friends who were influential to my life, as well as other animators', quitting Maple animating over the past few years, I've long since cared about the wanting the "golden age" back. Times and things have changed and so we need to change. What do we do now exactly? Who is our audience? At this point, I still Maple animate because I want to and I've got my own goals to finish. As someone who to this day still genuinely enjoys making MapleStory animations, I am willing to link MM in the descriptions of my future uploads if that helps. Also, I've personally wanted to host/be part of a creative collab (which sucks, 'cause I'm limited to only using SV OTL; also I joined one and worked really hard on my part, but it died -____-). I'm not the most social or chatty person, but please feel free to add me on Discord and maybe we can work something out 8D. *Apologies for necroposting & if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to x'D*
THIS. God, I agree with you so much. I couldn't have said it better. Given, It's definitely not that MS animation is dying as a whole. It sounds like there are a ton of people that would potentially join the forums. I'd love to see more SV users integrate into MapleMation. Personally, I want to help make this community at least a little more SV-friendly however I can (Heyyy Tracey, group effort? :D :D :D). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only know of three active members of MM (or somewhat active) that use SV. I'm not pushing for this community to be dominated by SV users or be overly nice to them, but I think it would be great if we at least didn't scare them away. I'm definitely not as good at wording my thoughts as Tracey. Hopefully this got a few things across, at least.
