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Comment and Criticsm - How it works

Discussion in 'Art' started by Goates, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. Goates

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    CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM


    Comment and criticism, often shortened to CNC or C&C is advice helping the one who receives it. A lot of people get angry when they read something other than "OH THAT'S SO PRO". With this guide, I aim to help everyone understand how to cope with criticism and how to implement it into your work. We have to keep in mind, that criticism is always a good thing, when properly given.

    RECEIVING CRITICISM


    Let's start out with receiving criticism. Something very important you have to remember when you post your work online is that people don't have to look at your work and people don't have to comment. If someone really places effort in a comment pointing out whatever they feel is wrong with what you created, it means they're doing you a favor. Real criticism takes time to create and people have to really look at your work. They spend time in your hard work and time. Even if you disagree or feel insulted you should remember that they were really trying to just help you out and everything you say to tell them off will make you seem like a bit of an ungrateful person who can't stand anything but hearing how wonderful she/he is.

    People are perhaps not any better than you in what you do, but this doesn't mean you can't accept their criticism. What you did wrong and didn't see, can be seen by others quite easily. You sometimes just don't realize that something is wrong in your work, but when you get it pointed out it just seems so incredibly obvious that you facepalm and ask yourself "Why did I not see that?". This doesn't mean that the person giving you criticism has to show that they can do better. In general, the comment "Let's see you do better!" is deemed the most stupid and idiotic comeback towards criticism ever. It not only makes you look stupid but also arrogant and blind to what others say.

    I DON'T WANT CNC!


    You are placing your work online. The internet is a place where the entire world is open to say whatever they want to say. You can't force people to give you only positive opinions, because not everyone will like your work.

    A lot of people would ask me "She/he isn't asking for CNC, so why are you giving it?". As true as this is, the person I had given CNC in that case, was also not saying that they did not want it. So which of the two is now the person in their right? Truth be told, both of the people are right in this case. Nobody asked for CNC but nobody said no either.

    The best way to avoid this discussion is to simply say "I don't want CNC" if you really don't want it. Assuming you will receive CNC is always better than to be blind to it and thinking nobody will be "negative" about your work. Of course people will always say whatever they want to say if you say no CNC. Because an opinion is not countered by saying no CNC. Someone saying that they dislike it is no different to saying that one likes it. It's an opinion. And if you accept the one, you should also accept the other. Accepting opinions is not a one side option.

    OH GOOD LORD, I RECEIVED CNC!?


    It all starts with casually reading what someone has said. There might be harsh words in there but you need to read around them and read the actual message someone wrote. Why did the CNC'er say what he/she said? Is he/she right? Now that you've read it you can start asking yourself these things. But first of all, is the comment rational? Of course a CNC'er is doing this to help you, but sometimes they get out of hand. They say things just to fill up their comment or are simply basing this completely on their own opinion. Your style is always your style, as long as it looks good, it should be ok.

    If you don't understand what someone is telling you, you ask. Asking is better than leaving it there and wondering what the hell someone meant. You aren't being defensive, you aren't telling them off. You're only asking them to be clear about what they exactly meant so that you can work with it.

    If you really have a troll, don't respond to him and don't get people to respond to him. Don't even thank the people responding to him. Just completely ignore it.

    If you really disliked the criticism given, just be polite and place a comment saying thanks. The criticizer is still putting effort in looking at your work, it's worth thanking him even though you disagree with him. DON'T start a fight simply because you feel insulted. You are not the greatest artist in the world. So you can't be insulted because there is always a valid point in what people say about you having errors in your work.

    Finding an excuse for everything someone tells you, is simply immature. You are only fooling yourself with comments like "I was lazy", "I was bored" and "My scanner sucks". We have heard them all. You are deluding yourself if you think anyone will fall for it.

    "You create and form, someone who does this has to solve problems, not make them." - Quote from Jeroen, teacher Graphic Design at the MA and freelance Graphic Designer.

    Obviously, you don't always understand what a person is trying to tell you. Don't be afraid to ask. The person will most likely help you, considering he already did before. Sometimes people use difficult names and you will simply not follow what they're trying to point out. Ask them to simplify it for you.

    Of course, you don't always have to listen to the advice others give you. It IS your work, you can't let them take over everything you have made. Stay true to your own opinion and don't lie to yourself. If you do everything everyone else tells you to do, there will be no more originality.

    I WANT TO DESTROY SOMEONE WITH MY CNC :D!


    Hello there sweetheart. I have something very important to tell you! No, I don't love you. You aren't awesome, you aren't great, you don't know everything best, you aren't all high and mighty because you have something longer and you are not always right.

    It's a bit harsh, I admit. Of course you are obligated to your own opinion, but in criticism it's not about what you think. It's all about looking what could actually be considered a mistake. When you start suggesting ideas that came forth form your opinion it will turn into advice. You have to consider yourself equal to the person you are helping. You are both humans and even if you are better at what he is doing, you were once also at that point where what you made looked bad. You also might never know when someone becomes better at it than you. Do you really want to swallow your words when that happens or be thanked for your help to get him/her reach that certain point?


    The difference between constructive and de-motivational criticism.

    Examples of constructive criticism:
    "This isn't really well done, but by editing _____ it could be better."
    "Try putting more pressure in your pencil at that spot, this will improve the ______."

    With criticism like this, people will understand what to do and where they are lacking.

    Demotivating criticism is harsh and straight, to the point. As harsh as I am myself, demotivating someone will get nobody anywhere.

    Examples:
    "This is god ugly, my eyes burn."
    "DIE!! U SHULD DIE 4 MAKING ME SADZ WITH YOUR HORRIFIC SKILZ."

    Look, now you can think "everyone does it." But saying things like this doesn't help anyone. You only start fights and unhappy faces. Someone still worked hard on what they made. Perhaps it looks like something you could make in less than no time, but it was still hard for the person who created it.

    Try to support your criticism with reasons to why you are saying it. There is usually a reason to why something is wrong, and being clear about it will make correcting and future referencing a lot easier. Sure there are exceptions. Sometimes it's just so god ugly that you can't go on anymore without saying that someone totally failed it. Well, you have the words "Practice a bit more" for that. In most cases, it really just is a matter of practice. Only a few artists are born with talent. And even those people have to practice their skills to improve.

    LET'S FORM THAT COMMENT NICELY.


    We all know the first step right? Watching or looking at whatever someone has made. At first you will not be able to see everything that could be deemed an error. So look again, and again and again and again till you are sure you have some points you wish to address.

    Split up your comment in two categories. Errors you are 100% sure of that they should be adjusted and errors that aren't really errors but you find its presence odd. The second would be a category more based on what you think and what you would suggest. It's not needed to be executed entirely but your advice is to look into it. Keep in mind that half assed messages don't work, be clear and direct.

    Name the errors and how to correct them. Always support your message with solid proof. Nothing is wrong and nothing is ugly without a reason. Give as many options to the creator as you can. How would they be able to change what you have pointed out? Sure you will not always know how to correct it, but this shouldn't prevent you from stating so. Just make clear that you aren't aware of it either, to prevent a future question. Consider why the creator made certain mistakes or decisions as well. This is also a great tip for the creators. Don't look only at what you like. You are making it for others to look at as well, so try to place yourself in the viewers mind.

    When you have formed your comment, check for mistakes. People tend to not take bad grammar serious and will probably attack you on it. Usually when you start off with trying your best for proper grammar, there will be little left to correct.

    KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH.


    "The flow of your tag is totally incorrect. The typography has failed and you can't place your focal there."

    What in the world are you talking about? Sure some people understand what you say, but let's say that I don't and you are giving me criticism. Do I really need to ask you what you are talking about? Don't work with hard words. We are all stupid artists who didn't choose for that doctor's study. We will probably end up without a degree somewhere on the streets of some European capital, drawing people for money when the weather is lovely.

    Not everyone understands that a focal's the most important part of your work. Not everyone understands that typography is related to text. Not everyone understands what flow is and what a tag is. Even if these words are so logical to you, NOT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS.

    You can't expect someone starts out as one of the most amazing artists in the world. This also means you have to explain certain parts about programs they might be using. Lower your level and point out where they can find certain things. Not everyone works with the most expensive software. Digital work isn't always done with Photoshop. If you don't know HOW to use the program, try not to meddle with how someone did use it. Simply because you can't know what went wrong.

    NEARLY DONE.


    A few last points I'd wish to address before you finally finish reading this long guide. Being detailed can easily summarize this entire page. Always stay detailed, don't skip something because you're too lazy. Be exact by judging every pixel on your screen. Starting with a compliment will also make it easier for someone to accept your criticism. It will show that you still appreciate their hard work even though you spotted mistakes. Try not to write in a bad mood and don't be picky. At some point, you can become annoying by making an issue over something that isn't a big deal to begin with. Break up your wall of text in paragraphs. Categorize what you're saying so that it's not a long and annoying read without end.

    And with this said, you're done.
    Congratulations.
     
    Tra-La-Tracey likes this.
  2. Se7en

    Se7en Guest

    Very nice tutorial, Why you writing a Dutch one too?
     
  3. Jjay

    Jjay Retired Staff
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    This is great, lol. It really does sum everything up. Goob job m'lahv.

    As for grammatical errors.. there wasn't many. The only things that really bugged me were..

    1. The short sentences. There isn't anything wrong with them, but COMMAS ARE YOUR BEST FRIEND.

    2. These paragraphs :

    "If you really disliked the criticism given, just be polite and place a comment saying thanks. The criticizer is still putting effort in looking at your work, it's worth thanking him even though you disagree with him. DON'T start a fight simply because you feel insulted.

    Because YOU are NOT the greatest artist in the world. So you can't be insulted because there is always a valid point in what people say about you having errors in your work."

    The sentence, "Because YOU are NOT the greatest artist in the world," does not contain a cause-and-effect. Because of this, it is discouraged as being grammatically correct. It isn't wrong, but is considered sloppy.
    If you had said, "Because YOU are NOT the greatest artist in the world, DON'T start a fight simply because you feel insulted," then it flows better, contains a cause-and-effect, and is used completely correctly. Although, the downside is that it puts emphasis on the "because", rather than the "don't".
    "Don't start a fight because you feel insulted, because YOU are NOT the greatest artist in the world." This now puts emphasis on the "Don't", which may be preferred, and is also written correctly.

    TL;DR starting sentences with 'because', 'but', and 'and', are considered sloppy. 'Because' is usually an exception, when used with a correct cause-and-effect. :C
     
  4. Goates

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    I originally wrote it in Dutch for a certain website. After that I translated it into English. But the Dutch version needs some work.

    Thank you JJ, I will correct it later ::D:.
     
  5. Hyakato

    Hyakato Newbie

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    Wow that was a nice tutorial
    But
    MY EYES HURT
    It must've taken you hours to type that all up.
    You don't really have very bad grammar,
    of course, I'm 12. I know it says I'm 14 on my profile, I want to change it. :dislike:
    Back to the point: I liked it cause it wasn't all just boring stuffs
    --
    You are funny
     
  6. starshadow

    starshadow Nestea

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    wow. This gets an A+ in writing an essay in english class.
    it gets an A++ in giving advice to people who need it.
    I have got no CnC for these paragraphs :3
     
  7. Goates

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    -still needs to rewrite it with JJ's advice-

    TOO LAZY, MUST PROCRASTINATE.
     
  8. Goates

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    UPDATE:

    Completely rewritten.
     
  9. Chocofountain

    Chocofountain Newbie

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    What I do when someone criticizes my fail.
    Accept it.
    Troll that person.(If I felt like it)
    Tell that person I luv him too.

    But if it`s a hate comment.
    Troll that person.
    Tell him ''Kay I fail, so what. you fail moar.''
    Tell that person I luv him too.
    tell that person I hate him too

    But sometimes when I tell them I luv em. They say mean things to me.

    WHY YOU NO GIVE LUV, you haters.

    But yeah, good tutorial. Now I can maturely look at haters, If I felt like it.
     
  10. Tray

    Tray Veteran Membah'

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    Everyone in MapleMation should read this tutorial
     
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  11. Gabbybites

    Gabbybites Veteran Membah'

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    CnC
    Critique and Comment

    Critique:
    "A critical review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature."
    "Critique has been used as a verb meaning "to review or discuss critically" since the 18th century."


    Comment:
    "a note in explanation, expansion, or criticism of a passage in a book, article, or the like; annotation."
    "a remark, observation, or criticism: a comment about the weather."

    Doesn't mean you have to be a DiC about everything. You can be nice to the individual, whom has put hard work into their animation/art/music/litterature, and compliment their work along side your opinion instead of constantly pointing out what you hate about it. ಠ____ಠ

    As a side note from Bronzeio, you shouldn't be afraid of receiving CnC either. If someone is trying to help you improve on your work, then appreciate the help. Let's just hope between you and me it's REAL help, and not a witty comment complaining about everything you do.

    BE KIND TO ONE ANOTHER ONCE IN A WHILE.
    Terribly sorry to people who have stumbled upon this and don't need it, tired of seeing rude comments everywhere when someone asks for CnC.
     
  12. Core

    Donator

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    This was pretty much needed! I think this should be sticky'd in every section LOL.
     
  13. Bronzeio

    Bronzeio Veteran Membah'

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    [​IMG]

    This is nice, but I feel like there should be a section telling that the artist shouldn't feel butthurt about CnC when a forum member that gave the CnC wasn't being a DiC.

    A.K.A. Receiving the CnC well is important.
     
  14. Gabbybites

    Gabbybites Veteran Membah'

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    I agree on that aspect. But it's hard to receive good CnC nowadays when all you get is "The neck is too long. You suck at hands. I don't like the entire style. You should change everything you do because I don't like it." People seem to be less and less open to different styles lately and it's frustrating me to no ends.

    Also while I'm surfing through the forum, unless you're a known person in the forum, you almost NEVER get nice compliments, all you get is people spitting on their work even if that person did an amazing job on improving and seeing that all the time makes me cringe, not wanting to be on forums any more.

    I would simply appreciate it once in a while to see nice comments ALONG side the critiques.

    (let me take what you said and add a part about taking CnC like a man/woman nonetheless, it IS an important aspect. Thank you!)
     
  15. Taki

    Taki I look good sometimes
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    i've seen like 3 threads with the same message. i even made one. no matter how you say it or explain it, nobody cares.
    its simple, they don't do it because they want to help, they have sad lifes and want to let it out on other people. of course they tell you they want to help people improve. they just say that so we let them continue. if its not made as a rule to not be huge dick because you dont like someones work, it simply wont change.
     
  16. Quade

    Quade God of Spirit
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    Although I completely agree with your view on cnc, the only way rude people are going to stop being so rude is if overly vulgar cnc becomes an infractionable offence. If there's no punishment, they'll never learn. If they do post good, politely written cnc, they'll get thanks instead of flame. That's the only solution I can think of to reducing the rudeness of some people's cnc.
     
  17. Taki

    Taki I look good sometimes
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    on the other side, i understand there are people who are naturally rude assholes, and the nicest thing they can ever do is giving you harsh critique. but there are only a few exceptions. the rest can go fuck themself deep.
    adding a rule like that would be too troublesome. we should have done it from the beginning. mm was born full of dicks.

    the least we can do is being a good example.
     
  18. PsychoJolteon2

    PsychoJolteon2 "I am your worst nightmare...''

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    Lol I always thought that CnC was a weird smiley who didnt look happy

    CnC


    Haha so funny
     
  19. Char

    Char Veteran Membah'

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    If there was no one telling you what was wrong you'd never get better.

    I post here to get wailed on so that I can figure out what is wrong, telling people about flaws is probably one of the nicest thing.
    I show my shit to people I know IRL and they just say, "looks good" and it's fucking infuriating.

    If you just went on and on about how much you like something all your doing is creating a place where an artist feels comfortable, which is terrible because if you never try anything new you'll only be holding yourself back

    Also does anyone remember the old rule post that was up that had a specific rule saying that if you can't take CnC that you shouldn't post it here? or is that just me because that was possibly the best rule on this forum.

    I will agree that there is some bullshit CnC like when Aidan or some newer member just posts "It's choppy" in the animation section cause that won't help shit.
    ESPECIALLY THE NEW MEMBERS WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN!
    (I remember that shit, I asked people how to stop something form being choppy and all I got was, "yeah it's choppy.")
    okay back on topic:

    all I'm saying is that it's not someone being a dick, in any way, they're literally just trying to help and motivate you!
     
  20. Quade

    Quade God of Spirit
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    I know what you're saying but what we're talking about is the difference between: "It's choppy. Your animation sucks balls. Go kill yourself." and "Your animation feels a bit choppy to me, you should try to make your movements seem more fluid."