Dreamer Vs Grace

Discussion in 'Animation Arena' started by Epicness182, Dec 1, 2018.


Who wins?!

Poll closed Dec 4, 2018.
  1. Grace

  2. Dreamer

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  1. Epicness182

    Epicness182 Hi, I'm here.

    Jul 26, 2012
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  2. [神] ScarfKanye

    Jul 7, 2017
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    Though I thoroughly enjoyed both parts a lot, I'd have to go with Grace's part due to the combat and pacing improvement that was seen in her animation and I liked.

    I really enjoyed this MBR, and hope to see great stuff from the both of you, really!
    ILovePunCakes likes this.
  3. Blez

    Blez UH WHOOPS??

    Apr 12, 2014
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    my girl grace improved so much

    also, MBR should be judged the WHOLE animation instead. including the story too. mbr doesn't mean just fight anim or whatever. it can be anything.

    I'm holding my vote since both of you are equal. good job both of you♡♡
    ILovePunCakes likes this.
  4. Kayas

    Kayas The Indolent
    Animation Leader

    Dec 2, 2014
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    Oh boy, where do I begin? For starters, let's take a look at the theme (which is really just 2 different things) since one had the absence of an arena. The original thread on your profile was arena, so either follow the theme or just all it freestyle or something. Also it doesn't matter what you want it to be judged by, in the end, people will vote for what is better - regardless of it taking everything into account besides "bg story". Let's get into the animations themselves.

    If I had to give a word or two to describe each of your animations respectively; for Dreamer it would have to be experimental, and for Grace it would be over-bloated. Keep this in mind with the follow points I have to give.

    + Honestly, I did like your attempt at rigging though its execution is far from desirable. The combat is intimate and a nice change of pace from the explosive fights the community brings.
    + Choreography at 0:23-0:30 was really good! I am impressed with this!
    + Aside from the first slash, I really liked the final sword sequence at the end!
    - While I liked your attempt, it lacked impact and snappiness. The pacing was a little distorted. There's little to no anticipation for stronger attacks.
    - I don't know what's going on with the inverts (that happen over the black cinematic bars by the way) and the blurred version of your character coming out when he gets it but it doesn't look good in execution. The flash is in quick bursts and the blurs kind of just don't look good with no real way to explain why. I'd avoid spamming these.
    - Camera work was clunky and rotating all the time so it looked like a drunk camera man was behind it.
    - Given the tone of your fight being a brutal murder, I wouldn't expect the scenery to be... you know... bright and sunny, enveloped in lush greenery lmao.
    - Some sound effects outside of the fight. Grass footsteps? Anything? They could go a long way.
    - On the topic of sounds, some music would be nice to intensify the scary aspect of this murderer. It goes a long way! Horror movies wouldn't work if it played the Price is Right theme on its scarier bits.
    - The parallax looks manual but assuming it's coded - the values are wrong. Some planes move, some don't, some move in opposite directions. It's consistent.
    - This leads into a larger issue where you have these distorted cuts that look bad to be blunt here for a second like at 0:10 where the characters tween, the background is moving in opposite directions and you can see the dirt of the 2D floor tile. None of this makes sense, it looks bad and is just a distracting cutaway.
    - Another shot was at 0:15 where you can again see the dirt floor, the background trees are moving on their own and the scale is all over the place. This shot actually had a lot of potential though so keep working at it.
    - 0:17 the way this back shot of Grace walking was kind of funny as she was teetering to the side rather than... you know. Walking. A simple up and down would work. Also! Dirt! Avoid this with perspective shots as it breaks the illusion of depth you're going for.
    - The kick while cool in concept at 0:18 doesn't work well with the low pixel count of Maple sprite limbs and there was no anticipation for it.
    - Keep in mind of composition. On the above point, I was talking about the kick. The kick came from the left and hit your character to the right. The next immediate shot at 0:19 had your character going left. It's good to keep consistency of positioning (the 180 rule) so as not to distort the viewer's sense of space in the animation.
    - Grace was running real slow at 0:20 with no grass footsteps.
    - At 0:31, I get what you were trying to do but it doesn't work here. The speedlines are horizontal and the sword is moving slow with no camera work so I do not get the sense of velocity or that it is coming towards me. Here's two examples of me doing it which should better portray what you were going for. [1] [2]
    - I said I liked your final sword sequence for the most part at the beginning but the final shot with the weird perspective and Grace's head falling lacked the flair I'd expect. The perspective doesn't look good (which is a constant by the way) and there's barely any camera work, shakes and interesting sound design.

    The reason why I called your animation experimental is due to your notes so I'm assuming you're going for a new style. Nothing wrong with that, I endorse it. Just try and take feedback to improve it - no need to abandon it!

    + Choreography
    - Atmosphere (backgrounds, scenery, etc.)
    - Camera (less dizzy style!)
    - Combat (impacts, snappiness and anticipation)
    - Perspectives (better composition)
    - Sound (fitting music, more sounds for other actions and make it interesting)

    + It's no denying you've made steps in improving yourself. This is definitely a step up from your previous works.
    - The pacing is really bad. There's frequent pauses and long pans that did nothing like with the spells. All the excitement disappeared for a dragged out ending. There's periods of seconds dedicated to Grace just... walking. This honestly brought the animation down severely in my eyes as pacing - to me - is the most important thing from a fight.
    - While it's nice that you adhered to the arena theme, it wasn't really utilised well as from the map. Where's the arena? Announcer? Nothing going on for it.
    - The text based character introductions didn't add much, text was bland, boring and flat. It was awkward with the cut rotations.
    - The combat while basic didn't hold up. Things were floaty, impacts and anticipation wasn't delivered well, etc.
    - Distorted sense of space just like Dreamer (focus on 180 rule).
    - The pacing I mentioned earlier, the intro and the text cuts of the characters which was underutilised is what makes it seem over-bloated. But these offenders are just as bad as the plot going on. This is kind of a common thing, but these plots don't go... anywhere. It's no better than the "Hey! Let's MBR!" schtick. Dude asked for a date and then they fight with no response? Not very interesting, took up time and was unneeded fluff.
    - The camera work wasn't as wonky as Dreamer's but it wasn't better either. It was too dull, just horizontal tweens, rough shakes, etc. Quite boring.
    - The sound design was about as bland as Dreamer's. It was average up until the finale spell. With the ample amounts of time, I expected some interesting camera cuts, perspectives, effects or sound design. What I got was a weird hum that was just... corny? I don't know, it wasn't good.

    You've improved but a number of things in regards to pacing and basic camera work/sound design really brings this down. The haphazardly put together "plot" and the underutilised theme didn't help either. Please, I encourage you to seek feedback for your work and really try to take in both mine and others' feedback as it will turn those steps of improvement into strides. I truly thing that. Don't let this put you down and keep trying!
    - Camera (dull)
    - Combat (below average-average)
    - Pacing (bloated)
    - Plot
    - Sound (dull, bad humming)

    Without intending to sound like an utter dickhead, I won't be voting as both animations were bad for different reasons which I have explained. Dreamer, yours was experimental so I had a lot to say about it. Grace, just work on your basics and you should be good. It doesn't have to stay that way, otherwise I wouldn't bother taking the time to type this out - use this and take advantage of the contents of this post to prove me wrong in your subsequent works. Good luck on both your endeavours.
    Warren , Drew, Bryant and 6 others like this.
  5. Epicness182

    Epicness182 Hi, I'm here.

    Jul 26, 2012
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    Yeah I attempt to go for more cinematic and Darkish tones when animating.
    The backgrounds were experimental for sure, I just used Flashes "Advanced Layers and Camera" feature for the parallax effect.
    About my notes it was more like:
    I wanted to use more RIGs and a semi real slower pace. By 30 I decided to go for the fast action pace just to get somewhere.
    After she hits the tree though, I just went back to my original plan.
    I've been out of animating for a while and I appreciate the CnC! Will keep it up!
    Kayas likes this.
  6. Neil

    Neil "Oops"

    Jan 23, 2012
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    Congrats on your win Dreamer.
    I'll update your profiles soon.
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